In this episode of the Longshore Insider Podcast, AEU Loss Control Manager Leo Alaniz sits down with Mike Jernigan to discuss strategies to develop safety leaders through clear training, disciplined hiring, and mentorship.
Announcer:
Welcome to the Longshore Insider Podcast from the American Equity Underwriters at AEU, we are passionate about helping waterfront employers protect their workers and their businesses. Join us as we explore practical strategies for improving workplace safety, effective claims management, and much more. So, let's dive in. Welcome to the Longshore Insider Podcast.
Mike Jernigan:
Hello, and thank you for listening to the AEU Longshore Insider podcast. I'm your host, Mike Jernigan. In our latest series, I'm speaking with AEU's very own loss control managers to learn how they help organizations across the maritime industry develop, maintain, and improve safety cultures. I'm joined by Leo Alaniz, and today's topic of discussion is developing safety professionals. Leo, thanks for joining us. It's
Leo Alaniz:
Good to be here. Thank you.
Mike Jernigan:
So, Leo, tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you get started in safety?
Leo Alaniz:
I was at the right place at the right time. When I came out of the Air Force, I was looking for a summer job and there was a shipyard in Brownsville, Texas. So, I applied there. I ended up working within a safety department as a clerk and developing software that the safety team would use. So it was just the perfect storm in that I had the exposure to a large shipyard setting. We were doing new builds for jack-up rigs and we were doing semi-submersible conversion projects. So the exposure was there, a lot of modular work on the vessels, new build work, and it was just the right setting to learn from the safety side. So, as I'm working with the safety team, trying to develop new software, whether it's a inventory system, a tool room system or a permit to work system, some training curriculums, we just spent a lot of time developing the ins and outs of the safety program, and we already had the setting to work with. It was just a matter of getting the right safety program in place.
Mike Jernigan:
So as a safety professional, primarily as someone who was entering that field, you had to be developed, right? You had to develop into that role. And today we're talking about how to develop safety professionals, and I'm sure your time in the industry has shown you many different strategies and techniques that can be used. But can you talk about basically what it is that needs to be done to develop safety professionals?
Leo Alaniz:
So that's a very open-ended question, but I would start with you do need an organization in place, and I was very fortunate to have a very structured organization when I started at the shipyard, like you said, I was developed, I went through that process as well. But it's very key to develop that. First is understanding where you want your individuals to be trained, to what level you have your beginner, intermediate, and advanced level. And each one of those tiers needs to have an assigned level of training or competency at every level. So, when you start looking for talent to develop, you have to understand what tier you're looking for. And that kind of guides us to the next point where we talk about hiring talent and looking for safety professionals.
Leo Alaniz:
When you go out to the market, for example, and you're looking for individuals to come into your safety department, you have to understand if they're coming in at the beginner, intermediate, or advanced, and we have to keep it practical. If the company's going to be offering minimum wage, you don't expect to get an advanced level safety professional. It's up to you to develop that. So going back to the organization, having an organization and a view of your department, understanding what kind of safety professional you want, but also having a plan in place of how you're going to expose and train that individual to the level that you want to.
Mike Jernigan:
So, to boil it down, what I'm hearing is essentially you can't wing it. You have to set some clear objectives, some clear guidelines, and you have to have a specific plan. And if you don't have that firm foundation, then it's not going to happen. Is that right?
Leo Alaniz:
Oh yeah, absolutely. You have to have the game plan. You have to have a training plan to your own safety department. A lot of people hear training plan and you automatically go towards skills trades or the workers out on the field. How do we get that level of competency up in their respective skill trades? But that's very true within safety as well. There's just so much safety training out there. You have to have a plan of, my beginner level will be exposed to A, B and C, intermediate. We'll have this training and advance will have this training. You have to have that safety plan in place before you start looking for talent to come into your safety department.
Mike Jernigan:
So, when it comes to hiring, whether we're looking at a candidate pool in-house or externally, what are some of the key traits and characteristics that organizations should look for when they're trying to find the right individual to fill these safety roles?
Leo Alaniz:
So, there's a long list of skills and traits of course, that you always want to look for. But personally, the three that stand out for me is communication, influence, and coachable. First, you want to make sure they're coachable. Of course. How open-minded are they? Are they moldable? Are they going to work with you? I've had cases where we bring in someone who was with the previous company and they were just set in their ways to their old company. This is the way we always did it over here. And they try to instill that into this current program and that can cause some issues. So, are they coachable? Yes, we appreciate you bringing this background from the other previous company. Let's talk about it. Can we use it here from a process standpoint? But yeah, you don't want to bring in that individual that is set in his ways and just very close-minded.
Leo Alaniz:
You have to make sure that they're coachable. Communication just as important just because how do they communicate and how are they articulating ideas, whether it's with their peers, but also in the field. A lot of the time that the supervisor will have out on the field is discussing with supervision about a job and what are the hazards? How are we going to control those hazards? Let's work safely. So that simple conversation, whether it's a one minute conversation or a 30 minute conversation or disagreement, depending how it's going, but how do they communicate and are they keeping their temper? Are they managing the conversation correctly? And is it effective at the end of the conversation? Is it effective? And that leads us into the influence. You want to have individuals that can influence us, whether it's supervisors or workers. You're going to have a lot of times where the workforce wants to do a certain job a certain way, and it's going to be that safety individual giving them that information, that safety information, why that cannot proceed, why they have to do things a certain way.
Leo Alaniz:
You just don't want to come out and say, OSHA says you got to do it this way. You have to have that understanding of how to approach an individual and influence them to do the right thing. So communication influence kind of go hand in hand, but the influence aspect of it is you want to have individuals that can truly change the way an individual sees a situation and making sure that they're going to do it right the next time, not just when you're in front of them, but the next time that supervisors in that same situation, is he going to remember that influence and do it right the next time so that you don't have to be babysitting the whole time. So how are you getting to that individual and how are you convincing that individual that he needs to do it the right way? That's the influence that you need to find in the safety professional.
Mike Jernigan:
And I think that goes a long way. You speak to hiring someone from within the organization who knows the layout, they know the people, importantly, they already have a feel for the attitudes maybe and some of the egos that might exist out there and how to interact with those people. And that leads me into my next question. Can you leverage these relationships to help develop these safety professionals? Are there people who you can look to become mentors to the next generation of the safety professionals? How does that look? What does mentorship look like in this capacity?
Leo Alaniz:
Mentorship is very important, especially in a large setting like that where you just have a lot of direction and you have to make sure that you're following the correct direction with the guidance and that mentorship in place, once you have that individual identified is going to be your ear to talk to. What do you think about this idea? Or this is my situation, what do you recommend? I've been very fortunate to have mentorships in the shipyard setting, and most of them were in in-house, whether it's a vice president of production or in human resources. If you have the opportunity, it's better to have it in-house just because they're walking distance away. But in today's world of networking, you have the NSC organization, A SSP organization, there's industry events that you can go to and network and find that individual, someone who is where you want to be in a few years and has that experience, that technical knowledge has been through it. And yeah, you want to get ideas from them and how they did it. It'll save you a lot of headache if you have that individual to bounce off ideas off of.
Mike Jernigan:
And speaking to that influence, a lot of times that can come from developing mentorships with people in the yard who've been in these positions, who know the roles, who know the things. Touch on that. Tell me how important mentorships are to developing safety professionals.
Leo Alaniz:
Yeah, absolutely. Once you have that mentor, especially if it's an in-house, that resource that you have in-house and you're relying on that mentorship, it goes hand in hand with that influence just because they can assist in tactics, they can assist with certain approaches to certain individuals. Certain individuals are very black and white, and they want to see in writing why they have to do things a certain way, and it's fine with them, don't take it the wrong way. That's just the way they're processing information. Whereas the other individual's going to ask five times why, why, why? And down to the point of why did OSHA write it this way? I need more information. Let's change OSHA not understanding the regulatory side of it. And that would consist of a different approach, but a mentor can provide more guidance on where those individuals are, how much of a conversation should we have with certain individuals to make sure that they understand the safety perspective of that situation. So yeah, it goes hand in hand. That influence with the mentorship, if you have that mentor onsite, they can definitely provide more information on the different conversations you can have to have that influence.
Mike Jernigan:
So relationships and mentorships specifically are extremely important to developing safety professionals. But how about other resources, other technologies, other things out there that may help organizations develop their safety team and also help sharpen the skills? What are some of those things?
Leo Alaniz:
So yeah, there's a lot of information out there and there's just so much content regardless of platform, the worldwide web, where do you start? That's very true. And going back to that training plan, you want to start documenting the information that you get your training individuals exposed to or your safety individuals exposed to. You want to start controlling what kind of guidance they're getting, and whether it's YouTube or other video platforms out there, there's a lot of information that is for purchase online, but just as much as that, if not more, there's free information out there and you just want to make sure that that information that you're using as training, if you start using that content for training for your safety individuals, is aligned with what your company wants to do. So, for example, there's a lot of information out there that's for work authorization and permit to work, and a lot of that information is aligned with the oil and gas industry, but make sure it's not contradicting anything that you do in-house.
Leo Alaniz:
Not all companies have a permit to work process, whereas the oil or the offshore oil and gas industry already has that and it's written into law. It might not translate well into your own work setting. So that's what I mean by if you do have that safety training or that technology out there, you want to make use of the technology and the safety information out there to mold your safety processes, make sure that it's not contradicting something already in place. But going back to the question of the technology, you have your wearables, you have from the technical side, all the little gadgets that you can use on the field, and that's just going to be evolving. You got to stay fresh with that. And whether it's industry settings or industry event settings or online with subscriptions, magazine subscriptions or the email spam, that usually goes to your junk folder. But a lot of those newsletters and alerts do have more product information about all the gadgets that are coming out. Don't just move those emails to your trash. There is some good information that comes out of that. I
Mike Jernigan:
Want to ask you a quick question about that. And we're not here to promote any particular products or brands at all. So maybe you can answer this in a more generic sense potentially, but what are some of those gadgets that you're talking about? What are some of the things out there that companies might be able to tap into? What is it?
Leo Alaniz:
So, it can go as simple as an iPad or an iPhone out on the field. And if you unlock that in itself, it opens up a whole world of forms and custom forms that safety officers can use and it's a tool at their disposal. So, for example, one thing that we did was we developed forms for stop work notification, unsafe behavior, unsafe condition. And with those three forms on the iPhone of the safety, he can pull up that and make a documentation or a record of an instance that he's observing and that gets notified to management and to the rest of the individuals that need to be notified. That's just one example. Another one is flashlights. With the industry changing so much about flashlights or whether it's a wearable one that goes on your hard hat for that visibility that you need in confined spaces, just in the last five years, that has changed a lot where there's so many more options when it comes to flashlights, you have your gas meters.
Leo Alaniz:
The technology of gas meters is also ever evolving, whether it's an individual, a four gas or five gas, you have lighting that's used inside vessels or confined spaces. Those have gotten a lot smaller in just my time being in safety. I remember when you had a little cage around the light bulb and it was quite heavy and it was a pain to maneuver that around. And now you have LED strips inside a confined space. So yeah, there's always products there. There's conferences that focus around technology and what is out there in the digital world and technology world. And it doesn't hurt to go to those with a safety mindset, what can I get from this technology conference that I can apply in my safety department? So there's always way to evolve and just to grab an idea from a technology perspective and just what can I do with safety?
Mike Jernigan:
So those shouldn't be things to fear. And sometimes I think when people hear technology automatically, a lot of our older generation like, oh, well, I don't email. I don't use the computer. I've met people in the industry right now, just old school, want the paper and the clipboard, I get it. But when we say technology, they get a little fearful too, I think, and they hide behind sort of a tough, oh, I just don't do this or that, but that technology doesn't have to be something crazy. We're talking about just new ways to light a space. We're talking about different wearable PPE and things like that that just make the job much easier. It's not something to fear. Quite contrary, it's something to welcome because it quite literally makes everything much easier.
Leo Alaniz:
Speaking of much easier. So, the biggest one that I haven't mentioned is the chat AI technology that's out there. And we've talked about in some of our safety forums already, we've demonstrated it at the forums, but if you're not using any variation of chat ai, you're already falling behind because everyone else is using it already. So, it's nothing to be fearful about. I've gotten some feedback from some individuals that were a little bit hesitant at first, and they gave it a shot and they say how it changed their day-to-day operations just because they use it so much now. But it's just that initial first step that's the hardest to take, get comfortable with it. It's a conversation. It's just like a chat, like an individual sitting on the other side of that and just ask away, I wish I had something like chat GPT when I was a safety manager. That would've been very helpful. Whether it's policy writing, a disciplinary action policy, draft safety training curriculum, the options are limitless just because you can ask it anything.
Mike Jernigan:
So, it's important to remember that AI is just one component, one tool to keep in your toolbox, right?
Leo Alaniz:
Yes, yes, it is.
Mike Jernigan:
So, we know that there are things that we can do, such as build relationships, we can focus on mentorships, we can tap into the technology that is out there to help develop safety professionals. Let's say someone, let's say we've done all those things and we have a person who is stepping into that role their first day and they're just trying to get their feet underneath them. What can they do to gain the trust and credibility of the people they're working with, even if they're people that they've known forever? How can they shift the perspective to I'm no longer the guy that's working right beside you. I am now a safety professional who is tasked with making sure that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in a particular way.
Leo Alaniz:
The word that came to mind as you were asking that is legitimize the safety position, especially on a vessel. Or if you're in charge of an area, you want to make sure that people take that safety individual seriously. And that goes a long way. Whether you're in front of a meeting, speaking to safety or toolbox talk, a weekly safety meeting, regardless of what platform you have, the only way they're going to take you seriously is if you have that respect of the workforce. And that's not something you pay a price for. That's not something that you demand. It comes with time, and it comes from talking to the individuals all one-on-one, talking to the workforce, making sure that the return on investment is there. What I mean by that is from the management perspective, they're looking at the safety individual and what is that safety individual giving me back to the business?
Leo Alaniz:
So, you have to work with the leadership of the yard or the terminal, work with them on obstacles on what is unsafe or what is a new process. Hey, we're going to be doing this job. We've never done it before. Let's assess it. Let's do a risk assessment. Let's mitigate and let's proceed forward safely. But even at that highest level, you're building points and you're getting that reputation with that leadership. If it's a one-on-one discussion with the worker, let's say it's a repetitive non-PPE user, how you address that situation with them, tell them why it's important, but they're getting to know you at the same time. So, every conversation you have with an individual, whether it's a worker or a position of management, you're building that reputation. And it's again, going back to that respect that you want to have within the workforce. It's not going to come overnight. It takes time to build up, but just like any relationship, you have one bad moment and it's going to bring you down 10 steps. So, you want to avoid those bad moments, whether it's with management or with the worker individual, and you want to keep building that relationship. Don't take any steps back.
Mike Jernigan:
So, we've covered a lot of great points today, but let's speak to an organization who's trying to develop their safety professionals. What are some quick things that you would say to them to help them get started right now?
Leo Alaniz:
To summarize, I would say first you have to develop that safety professional training plan. That's step one. That'll really lay out what you want for your own safety department, whether it's one individual or 10 or 30 individuals, but you have to come up with an organization of that safety team and what do you want it to look like? That would be step one, two, hire the right individuals for that, whether it's from the market or in-house. We talked about those different options. And three, the mentorship. What options, what avenues do those individuals have to rely on Mentors, whether it's in-house or within the company or whether it's in the industry, but do provide those opportunities for those safety professionals to have that mentorship. And then lastly, we talked about the technology. Make sure that that opportunity to improve exist with technology. It's 2025 already. Hard to believe that.
But with, as the years go on, more options will come up in the technology world. And one trap that a lot of companies fall into is that day-to-day a hundred miles per hour. And it really minimizes the amount of time you have to learn or to get new ideas from the technology side, just because you're so busy, every minute is accounted for, whether it's 10 or 12 hour shift for safety professional, you're just running always from the moment you go in to go inspect areas to get work started. You're always in a rush throughout the day with meetings, walkthroughs, conversations, disagreements, and then there's just so many unaccounted for items that come out throughout your day. Before you know it, it's time to leave. And how much time does that really allocate to get more ideas from the technology side? So, in order to be truly innovative from the technology side, you have to allocate that time. You have to reserve that time and make sure that your safety professionals are looking at what's out there, how can we improve the system? From the technology side, it's out there. It is just a matter of reserving that time to learn it.
Mike Jernigan:
We really want to give our workers the best tools available to them because at the end of the day, the job is safety. But as I've said before, that's more than word. If we do the job correctly, we are literally helping people go home safely every day. And I think, again, that's important to reiterate time and time again, these processes, these procedures, these things that we mention are more important than just the words that we speak. We're talking about real people with real families and others who rely on them to get these jobs done. It's not just about production on the field, but it's about making sure these people go home to their families. And that's why we want everyone to be successful, because if we all do our job, then people stay safe, people work safe, and they feel safe. And I think that's really important. So that leads me to my last question, and I ask this of all of our loss control managers. As a safety expert who's been in this field for a long time, what is one thing that you wish more people understood about safety?
Leo Alaniz:
I would say I, safety is a journey, not a destination. And what I mean by that is often safety is looked at as a checkbox or a regulatory requirement where it's just a black and white world or you just check the boxes, yes, we're good to go. And that's a trap to fall into. Safety is always going to be about continuous improvement. Your learning from the incidents that happen, how does that tie in to your overall system? What are the corrective actions to make sure those incidents don't repeat? And it's an ongoing just cycle of continuous improvement. And that is really what safety will come down to is the journey of it, the continuous adapting to it, learning from the incidents and tying that back to your overall system. So the moment that we feel we have arrived in safety is when you get complacent.
Leo Alaniz:
And I've seen that in my experiences is some companies do get in that trap where they feel like what they have is good enough because nothing has happened, or there's really no in-house incidents that we can learn from. So that must mean that we're doing something good. So if you do arrive in that point, good, but there's an industry that you belong to and they're having incidents with the same hazards you have in your own yard. So yeah, going back to that phrase is, if you feel you have arrived in safety, that's not a good position to be in. You have to be just continuously improving across the board, whether it's your in-house training program or a primary to work process, your walkthroughs, corrective actions, how does that tie into incidents? There's always room for improvement, always room for improvement. So, I would leave it there as, you don't want see safety as a goal. You want to see safety as a journey to keep improving in it.
Mike Jernigan:
That's fantastic advice. And it really underscores the importance. It's not something you will ever complete. It's process, and it's an ongoing process that will evolve over time and you will have to evolve with it. Those technologies, things will change. The world changes, you've got to change with it. And you've got to be constantly vigilant, constantly aware, and make sure that your team has what they need to stay safe. So, thank you, Leo. I appreciate your time today and enjoyed your insight on this. So, thank you very much.
Leo Alaniz:
Thank you for having me.
Mike Jernigan:
And thank you to our listeners for joining us on the Longshore Insider Podcast. You can watch this episode and more on the American Equity Underwriters YouTube page. Also, be sure to subscribe to the Longshore Insider Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and check out even more content on our website equity.com. Until next time, stay safe and take care.